PoeticaL
cluttering the net since 2001

real or not real...that is the question...

Wednesday, May. 08, 2002
FIRST AND FOREMOST…..thank you e-nymph for the very real presents in the mail today. You’re a genius and you need to start a business!!! And thanks for being a “very real” friend to me. For cheering me up on bad days and just being someone that makes me believe the world is a good place. I owe you one!

Ok onto the subject of this entry….I got the best e-mail today. I hope she doesn’t mind that I’m going to do this. I think there are probably other people out there with this same exact quandary and they might benefit from this as well.



Her email is italicized…my comments to her words aren’t.



Hi,

Everytime I read your diary(ies), I have this sense that you and I have traveled down the exact same road, filled with the same people and same outcomes. I know that sounds weird, but I said it anyway. LOL


It doesn’t sound weird to me. I have felt the same way reading your diary and a few others at times. Some people’s diaries have made me cry. Perhaps not all entries but when someone is brutally honest and raw and I can relate to the topic(s) I get all emotional and my memories bring it all back. And I have to release. So sometimes when someone releases emotions of their own they are a catalyst for others to follow suit. Not saying you ever cried over my diary. But I think you follow.

I wanted to comment on one of your entries in your diary today, you wanted opinions on the "once you go out of the realm of mere words...then it's not someone "online" only anymore" idea. I have been pondering this exact thing alot lately, because of things that have happened recently.

It is almost always when something goes awry that we stop and think about the concept of online vs. reality. It is never when things work out with a happy ending that anyone finds fault in it. This is much like most things in life. We fault what goes wrong and praise what goes right. I have read quite a few diaries where two people have met online. In fact qwenolyn and proofrock are married and met online. But I believe that they met in person shortly after they connected on the Internet. I wonder if this has something or anything to do with the success rate of love persay.

I was chatting in the other day, in the Poetry room, with a friend of mine, when some guy jumped in the conversation (which is okay, normally) and basically said that online ISN'T real, it's purely for FUN, nothing to get upset over, nothing to get so involved in, etc., etc., etc. (I am sure you get the point). I honestly tried to see his point of view about it. Sure, there are people that only come online to just chat for a while, to bullshit, waste time, etc. I tried to explain to him, that being online isn't just bullshit to me, that I have made some honest and true friends here, some of which I have known for over 7+ years, that just because I had never seen them in person, face-to-face, didn't make that person any less of a friend to me.

I personally think that it takes a great deal of effort by two parties to sustain a friendship that lasts 7+ years. My questioning has led me to wonder how valuable is text vs. a real person in front of you? I tend to believe that a “real” person is anyone that can speak from the heart in a deep manner and with of course truth behind it.

In light of recent events with my “relationship” or whatever you call it when it’s online only…with "him". I know the value of truth. My own lies have muddied up those waters so greatly that it’s mostly a lost cause. I know that it will eventually strain itself out and all I’ll be left with is the grainy dirt so big it didn’t go away. I have learned, perhaps too late. But in any event I do NOT regret having known him or having gotten as close to him as I have.

He and I are currently arguing over the merits of the Internet and he feels that it’s a waste of time. I looked at the cost of airline tickets today partly because I am going on vacation that week and others in my office were looking at tickets. Mainly Mr. Unger. And..I was shocked to see that an airline ticket to meet "him" was so cheap. I mean there was nothing keeping us from moving on and meeting each other but his mere desire not to. I tend to personally believe that when the possibility of something in the real world seriously became possible he ran in fear and didn’t want the “very real” responsibilities of my child. That makes him a “very real” jerk ONLINE or in REAL LIFE!!!!!

It's so easy to trust the other person you are talking to as well. You don't have to act a certain way, or be what you think they would want you to be, you are able to truely be yourself, at least that's how I feel about it.

I believe that the screen in front of us gives a sense of security to opening up to a person. And we let down our fears. Easy to trust someone? It always is until you are so far in as far as being emotionally involved. If and when that happens then we become bumbling idiots with tons of vulnerabilities that the screen just magnifies. Trust becomes the thing that might just anesthetize a good thing.

Lots of people lie and lead people on, to get what they want, or to be cruel, or just for "FUN". They forget that the person they are talking to is like them, with feelings, emotions and a heart that can be broken.

I have personally found that people that are there just to lie and just to be hurtful and harm others for no good reason do not stand the test of time and fall by the wayside early on in the chatting experience.

Most of my "online" friends aren't just "online", many of them I have talked to on the phone with, written letters to and several I have even met in real life.

I can say the same for myself! I have met about 5 people from online interactions. Some were local and a mere drive to the beach, mall…etc to meet up with. One was from rather far away and he foolishly jumped a plane and came to see me. While I don’t regret the experience I wouldn’t recommend to anyone that they do this if they are still involved or married to someone. He was. But I didn’t ask him to come…it was his choice. Do I regret that? No. I don’t. He did it when I needed anyone, someone….to just show me that I mattered in this world. He probably saved my life by what he did when he did it.

And yes, I have been hurt, recently too, and that's why I have been pondering "shutting off the computer and dealing in the here/ now, my life."

Like I said earlier, pain is the thing that makes us stop and say “fuck owww that hurt, how did I get hurt? I don’t want to do that shit anymore!!!” But…we must all remember that people in the so-called REAL WORLD can and will hurt us and therefore the Internet is not all that different than just plain life.

Problem with that is, "online" is a part of my life. I'm sure that i could turn it off today and never come back. However, I feel that it would hurt others if I did that, it would be like turning your back on a friend when they need you most."

“Online” is part of my life. Yes, I have this same affliction, addiction…etc. Whatever you want to call it. We are all people reaching out to other people in all kinds of formats. If someone walked up to me in public and needed to talk, I would sit down and talk. That’s me. I reach out online because there are thousands of like minded people out there that we can learn from. In a sea….a cesspool (if that’s what the Internet is…) there are good and there are bad. I believe the way to navigate your way around it is to be realistic, be honest (I have learned this one the very hardest way!) and be yourself. It is when we as humans place a greater value on another person than we do on ourselves that we get hurt the most….online or on earth or sitting on my chair at a restaurant having dinner with friends.

LOL, I think I need to shut-up now. Not sure if anything I said made any sense at all.

As far as I’m concerned …..you need to not ever feel the need to shut up. A genuine decent person is going to hear you out and see you for the unique person that you are. It made a lot of sense and I appreciate your thoughts on this more than you will ever know!

I would just like to additionally add….that I asked Josh for whom I speak to on a daily basis via the INTERNET….


JEM: i debate this alot . . .
JEM: myself . . . this "real life" versus the internet . . .
JEM: its a different sort of knowledge . . . that isn't necisarily compatible with the one that occurs in face to face communication . . .
Me: but.....does the fact that we are talking in text and not face to face make me any less of a person to you?
JEM: no . . . this is not more valuable then a real life conversation . . . or a phone conversation . . . well . . .
JEM: except i can't see the cuteness in the flesh :-)
Me: I didn't ask about the value.
Me: I asked.....am I real to you?
JEM: i think you are a real person . . . i feel your emotional states . . . we fight . . . and we make up . . .
JEM: i try to comfort when i can . . . and i know you do the same . . .
JEM: in some cases i try to distract you with humor . . . and keep your head up . . .

Someone that tries to comfort you…and you do the same in return? That’s a very real emotion and so….

Well its an endless debate….as seen below….


“him”: your stupid

“him”: getting involved with online again

Me: I am not

Me: I talked to the guy

Me: big whoopie

“him”: you get yourself in too deep

“him”: too involved

“him”: fuck your mind up

Me: wrong

Me: wrong

Me: wrong

“him”: stupid

Me: what did I just tell you

“him”: is Mrs. Stupid in the house

“him”: so

Me: I'm not marrying the guy for christs sake

Me: I just talked to him

“him”: then you need to stick with that

Me: good grief

Me: quit telling me what to do

“him”: not spread yourself out with every idiot online that wants to move to FL

Me: every?

“him”: fuck you you listen

Me: hahaha

Me: I don't talk to anyone really

“him”: whatever

Me: you , Darksoul guy and a few other people

Me: don't tell me whatever

“him”: when are you going to learn to keep your shit to general level with ppl you talk to you online

Me: I'm 31 and free to do what I want

Me: I do keep it general

“him”: dont dig into their shit

“him”: no you dont

Me: yes I do

“him”: he knows where you live

Me: big deal

Me: i know what he does for a living and where he lives

Me: no he doesn't

Me: he thinks I live somewhere I don’t exactly live

Me: I don't live in tampa

“him”: he probably even knows what you do and what your situation is

Me: wrong

Me: he doesn't

“him”: well thats good if you tell them that youll be sure to scare him the fuck off

Me: youre wrong about that too

“him”: But you get too involved with strangers online

Me: he doesn't care

Me: he's not bothered by anything at all

Me: you can't assume that shit about everyone

“him”: well we will see what his intentions are

“him”: probably to get laid

Me: well he won't win on that one

“him”: y0u lose the fact that we are talking about you and you always give a repeat performance when it comes to online shit

Me: repeat performance?

Me: nope

Me: you're wrong

“him”: same stupid ass mistakes over and over again

Me: we can talk about me.........in fact good idea...

Me: I told you I talked to some guy in TN. Big deal. I talked to someone.

Me: you're the one that made it into something

Me: not ME

“him”: dont fuck with someone who lives someone else and is making plans moving to fl

Me: don't fuck with him? well that's pretty hard to do when he's that far away

Me: I spoke to him

Me: I'm allowed to talk to whomever I like

“him”: i mean get involved

Me: who the fuck said I was involved?

“him”: you talk too much thats always been one of your biggest problems

Me: bullshit

Me: I didn't talk to him at all

“him”: no its real shit alight

Me: about anything

Me: I asked him all the questions

“him”: look how much you knew

“him”: what the fuck did you have to know all that for

“him”: unless you were making plans

Me: because we were just talking

“him”: which is fucken stupid

Me: listen “him”

“him”: youll always be the same

Me: quit fucking telling me how to live my life or what to do or who to talk to

Me: you're not my fucking parent

“him”: well you need one

Me: no I don't

“him”: you sure do

Me: no I FUCKING DON'T

Me: I talked to someone. I have no plans.

“him”: look it your doing the same shit

“him”: admit or not your doing it

Me: If I have plans they have nothing to do with anyone I've never met.

“him”: Just stick with your local ppl

Me: men suck

Me: I'm not making plans around any man ever again.

Me: listen.....the last thing I"m doing is ever falling for some dumb fuckhead online again

Me: I"m not stupid like you think I am

Me: I've learned my lesson

“him”: damn i hope so

Me: my guts are hanging out and you think I'm still stupid?

“him”: if not your going to go through pain all over again

Me: fuck you “him”! Seriously...fuck you for having such little faith in me!

“him”: i said if not

Me: forget that if not shit now

Me: your opinion of me never changes

“him”: well see

Me: you think the worst no matter what I do

“him”: i just go by your track record

“him”: and your present actions

Me: no matter how hard I work at things and readjust and do the right thing instead of fucking up over again....you still think the worst

“him”: and i dont see much difference tell you the truth

Me: up yours

“him”: sorry

Me: there's a big difference now

“him”: well i dont see it

“him”: dont fucken tell me about dorks you meet online

Me: why?

Me: all I did was talk to someone once

Me: geez

“him”: because thats the same exact shit to a T you did before

It’s not the same. I learned from “him” two things.

1. “him”’s a dick.

And

2. Don’t lie to people online…even if they are a dick!

8:08 p.m. ::
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